belt CP

[leeguy92]

hi, im new to the forums.
Im not a complete noob when it comes to rc helicopters. ive pretty much mastered my blade CX28-)So i wanted to try something harder.

Today, i got a esky belt CP, this is my first single rotor heli(i kno...talk about jumping in at the deep end).
I spun it up a little indoors. I took it outside, and did some little hops around the lawn. It was all going well when, for some reason, i got the rudder and the aileron controls mixed up, i panicked and landed (it was about a foot or so up) as softly as i could, and scraped the ground with the blades :(

upon examination, i discovered the main gear had about a quarter of its teeth missing. and it seemed the feathering shaft was bent quite substantially. I also noticed a small dent in the boom. other than that, it seemed ok. so my shiny new heli is out of action until my parts arrive.

Later on, i thought to my self "TRAINING GEAR!". ive had the training gear thingy since i bought my CX2. I never used it. I knew there was something i meant to do to my belt cp.

What i wanna know, is:
Are there any parts of the blade 400(the only similar heli that my LHS stocks parts for), that could be used on the belt cp? It would be quicker to get parts from there than to order from heliguy.

are there any other parts of the heli that could be broken that i could have easily overlooked?

Also, has anyone got any flying tips for me, other than fitting the training gear?

any help would be great.

[eddiemoth]

Also, has anyone got any flying tips for me, other than fitting the training gear?

Welcome to HeliTown. Yes training gear is great and it would have saved you some parts form that crash. However, I don't know if the training gear you got for CX2 would be good for Esky Belt CP as Belt CP is way bigger than CX2. You may want to check with your LHS for a training gear for a mini helicopter.

Take it slow and don't force yourself too hard. Check out some of simulator to practise especially when you are waiting for your parts. Check out our Beginner Forum. Most people learn heli by using Radd School and here is the link. http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html I'll leave other questions for others to help you as I don't have a Belt CP so I don't know if Blade 400 would can be sued on your Belt CP.

[swatson144]

Welcome to HeliTown!

I don't really know about the parts interchanging, but others have said some do. Probably worth the effort to take the FS, blades, etc. in and compare through the package.

Light crashes are usualy (not limited to) boom, blades, flybar, FS, MS, and grips. I try to keep those around for all my helis. Grips are optional and don't usually break.

Also, has anyone got any flying tips for me, other than fitting the training gear?
I find it best to keep some air under the heli until it is in the correct attitude to land. lol

Steve

[ranger306ci]

The head parts are not interchangable. Different style/ different fs, main, all that.
If your hobby shop sells trex parts, a v1 450 fs will work, but you will need the cap screws to go with it.

Read through radds school for a good tutorial on flying.

[estarter]

The belt CP is a 450size heli, the stock setup has good power to do arcos like loops and rolls. Any hard landing (should say less than soft landing), you may have the boom strike damaging the boom, main blades, bending the spindle, main shaft and strip the main gear...

I would recommend to have an experience pilot to test fly and trim the heli before flying. Trainig gear will help.

[leeguy92]

thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

Ive had another look today, and it seems the tail boom is slightly bent.
fortunately i ordered a pack of two tails.

I would recommend to have an experience pilot to test fly and trim the heli before flying
good suggestion, but i dont know anyone else who flies stuff.
I s'pose im gonna have to teach myself(im no stranger to this).

at the moment i have FMS with my CX2 TX, so im hoping that it will help.

flying, repairing, its all good fun:D

[swatson144]

Maybe add a general location in the User CP. You could be around the block from one of us and not know it.

Steve

[eddiemoth]

leeguy92, there are a good number of our members and tech support team live in UK. Check to see if they are close by to you.

[leeguy92]

ok, something else is wrong.

i have replaced the main gear etc with new parts, and there is a lot of friction on the main shaft, as if the gear is too big, and rubbing against the motor gear.

i tried spinning it up, without the blades on, and the main gear appeared tilted on the shaft(going up down up down). the sound is enough to tell you there is something wrong (wahwahwahwahwahwah is the actual sound).

it seems the one-way bearing went in wrong(again), and is offsetting the gear.

is there some place i can order a pre-made gear from(with bearing inserted)?

[eddiemoth]

leeguy92, check this store I think they are located in UK www.buzzflyer.co.uk (http://www.buzzflyer.co.uk)

[leeguy92]

thanks eddiemoth, they are in the UK, i have ordered new main shafts, blades, and an assembled main gear.

ooo, i like the look of the buzz fly and the GAUI mini zoom SE-Pro. the latter is pricey though.

[leeguy92]

ok...heres what happened:

a few days ago i got the part, and installed it. i then tried some hovering. i was getting the hang of it, when a big gust of wind blew it into the ground, blades-first:cry:. the blades survived for some reason, but the main shaft was slightly bent, the main gear had some stripped teeth, and a control linkage snapped. not too bad...

i replaced all the parts i could(all except the main gear)

i am now waiting on a new main gear from buzzflyer, and have received a seemingly valuable lesson: dont fly in the wind - no matter how light it is.

gear should be here tomorrow...and the wind next to disappeared.

hmm..i wonder if my school would let me use their sports hall at lunch...

2 questions:
would it be better to fly higher than i am now(im at about 1-2 feet), im wondering if the turbulence is interfering with the response.

how tight should the blade grips be to the O-rings? i read they are for friction, but im wondering if i have done them up too tightly(they can still move fairly easily).

[estarter]

Sorry to hear the crash, once you can hovering, the crashing period will past and a whole new world will open up. The K2 main gear will fit the Belt CP with minor mod, it is a little more durable.

1-2 feet above ground is a little low for hovering, the ground effect may still be there, try to hover above 3 feet in an open area.

I tighten the blade grip spindal shaft nuts all the way with liberal amount of lub in the O ring and the thrust bearing, then rotate both grips and make sure they turn smoothly without any linkages (most of time I have to back off the nuts a little).

[leeguy92]

It happened again, except this time there was no wind when i took off, just when i crashed.

Well...that says it all really.
The main gear is fine, so are the blades.
I anticipate a bent MS and FS, though i am not certain.
one thing is certain: ive killed 2 servos, the 2 rear of the swashplate, they are making an unpleasant clicking/whirring noise. how did i break servos?
I think i read somewhere that esky servos tend to break easily(i could be wrong), is this true?

thanks for the advice estarter, will do that when i get the new servos.
btw, what is the mod for the K2 gear?

[mtpenguin]

Probably more stripped teeth than broken. On an impact, if the force on the servo arms is more than the motor can spin, something will have to give, usually the teeth. On my B400, I've stripped the teeth in the stock servo(s) each and every crash. The whole servo costs $7 so not big deal, accept I plan on crashing lots. So I am replacing them with JR285MG. The "MG" at the end of the name means "Metal Gear". These won't strip, but they cost $47 each.

You can just get replacement gears too.

I have a new TRex450SA that I am going to build, but I don't want to spend $47 * 3 ~and~ purchase a >$50 tail servo. JR sells a package deal with the 285 * 3 and tail servo, but they aren't the "MG" ones. I'm thinking of getting it anyway because it is a big savings, and then if/when I strip those gears, I can replace them with metal ones, basically making them the "MG" version anyway. I wish they would put a package together with "MG" version. I wonder if HiTech (who also make good MG servos) has a MG performance package....


B-)

[leeguy92]

hmm, it seems like everything is twice as expensive where i live(mebbe cos of the war or something).
£1 = ~$2

the servos cost £7 from buzzflyer.

anyway......

it seems im spending a lot of money on parts here and ive only had about 3 minutes of flight so far.

maybe i would progress quicker (therefore spending less money on parts) if i got a HBFP to get into the whole single rotor thing. i read that CP helis are more difficult to fly than FPs.
any thoughts??

[MrClean816]

less parts to break as the head unit does not change the pitch of the blade.
less moving parts means less chance of breakage.

[mtpenguin]

That seems to be somewhat of a debatable question these days. I haven't flown FP aside from my CX/2, but understand the points that have been made. Here is how I understand it.

FP: Are a little harder to be graceful doing FFF. They are more resistant to breaking stuff in a crash. (lower head speed)

CP: Are easier to control in FFF and wind. Bigger is better for ease of flight.


A CP with training gear and good setup with patience can be used for a complete noob to learn from. Patience being the key word.

If you're like me and like to jump in both feet at once, and learn from mistakes, you have 2 choices. Lots of $$$ in spare parts, or lots of time in a SIM.

If you haven't, HeliSimRC is a great simulator for the price (free). Very realistic for 450 size heli's.

B-)

[estarter]

The stock K2 main gear

[estarter]

The Belt CP has a driven gear for the tail, the bearing hub of the K2 is too big to fit the Belt CP, you have to trim some off.

[leeguy92]

I got helisimrc and it seems a lot more realistic than FMS.
Ive learned more on this sim in 10 minutes than i have from flying my belt CP since getting it. i dont think im gonna get a HBFP, it seems like it'll be more fun with the sim, and jumping right into the real thing.

Im probably gonna get the k2 gear, and mod it as e-starter suggested.

thanks for the advice.

[mtpenguin]

Sounds like a plan!


B-)

[leeguy92]

ha-ha, it flies!
Yesterday, i finally got the chance to take my belt cp out(been way too windy lately).
I tried it at about 7:00 in the morning, in the field behind my house(the owner said i can use it as long as there are no cows/sheep/machinery in it which there wont be for months).

i took it up about 5 ft at first.
It skidded around in the air a bit, as it did for most of the session. i think i got it to about 10ft in the air before the battery died(it only had about 2-3 mins left in it), i went to get the other battery which was fully charged, and when i installed it, the wind blew slightly for a minute or 2. When it was still again i took off, and i tried some hovering. After a while, a gust of wind blew it quite violently, i was able to get it vertical and land with no damage, but the wind kept coming up, and i didnt want to risk it.

Stuff for me to think about:
flying is so much easier when in a massive field, as opposed to my back garden.
getting it reasonably off of the ground helps a lot.
i think i need to move the rudder servo slightly forward, i am having to apply a lot of rudder input to keep it from spinning.


The control seemed far slower than in the simulator. is this normal??

also, i cant find a king 2 main gear in buzzflyer. will the king one fit it?

[mtpenguin]

Great to hear!

I need to find a big field too.

The Trex in the sim is quite zippy. Your's will probably seem slower, but that is good, right?

What do you mean "move the rudder servo slightly foward"? The control arm or the whole servo? The gyro should stop it from turning.

As long as the servo can reach full travel without binding on either end, that is a good as it gets.

Pictures?

B-)

[estarter]

leeguy92

Good job saving the Belt CP in windy weather. I have 2 Belt CPs, one plastic and one carbon version, knock on wood, haven't crashed yet.

The carbon version is 85g lighter than the Trex 450SE, flys the same also, almost hands free at inverted hovering.

[mtpenguin]

And you can tune the sim to be more or less zippy.

B-)

[leeguy92]

What do you mean "move the rudder servo slightly foward"? The control arm or the whole servo? The gyro should stop it from turning.

I thought it was only HH gyros that stopped turning.
i was referring to moving the actual servo forward (further away from the tail rotor).

As long as the servo can reach full travel without binding on either end, that is a good as it gets.

Yes, it took me ages to get that right, on second thought, i dont think i'll be messing with it.
Im taking it flying again tomorrow, i'll be able to spend more time studying how far i have to move the stick.

I didnt get any photos to upload, i'll get some tomorrow.

btw: are the controls exponential on the stock esky TX?

[mtpenguin]

HH tries to hold a heading.

Rate tries to stop the tail moving more than the stick tells it, so I suppose your right in that with a rate gyro, if the trim is off, the gyro will let it turn.

B-)

[leeguy92]

ok, i had a fly half an hour ago, and im getting more confident by the minute with this. the best bit was when i flew it forward for about 5m, then turned round, and flew it back, all without hitting anything. :D8)
i dont have a video of that though.
overall i was flying for about 5 mins, then the wind started to appear as it does this time of morning.

ill upload a video to youtube(its in avi format so i cant attach) as soon as their site is working properly(accounts are not available at the mo due to maintenance).

it seems my mind was exaggerating, i do have to move the rudder stick to keep the tail solid, but its nowhere near the maximum travel of the stick.

[leeguy92]

as you have probably gathered from my CNC thread, my im now doing repairs, but here is a clip the crash happening:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdBaIFJA_7g

[leeguy92]

Double post

[estarter]

Sorry for the "Oops", the terra firma wins all the time!

[mtpenguin]

That is an awesome field....

Some good nose in / circuit flying though.


B-)

[Griffin]

I have just bought a Belt CP from a club member who lost interest in helicopters. I got it for SAR1300 {US$168} which seems like a good price. I don't have it yet but it comes with two sets of spare blades and some other spares and one battery pack (1800mah 15C). Could some one give me advice on what spare pack(s) to get. Could you also advise me on what spare parts I should keep to get back in the air after a crash (and how many of each are needed). I can get them from a local dealer but he charges 2 to 3 times the price I can get them on the Internet.

My list so far

EK1-0515 Main Blade Clamp Set
EK1-0543 Landing skid set
EK1-0540 Feathering Shaft
EK1-0535 Tail Boom Set
EK2-0500 8g Servo
EK1-0501 Plastic Tail Blade
EK1-0504 Main blade sustain set
EK1-0538 Main Shaft set
EK1-0534 Main gear set

[broggyr]

Hey Griffin: How'd you make out with your Belt?

I just purchased a Belt-CP, unbeatable price and I had to act fast. Hope it wasn't a foolish move, we'll see when it comes....

[Mysterious]

add the bearings and nuts and washersthat go into the blade clamp/feathering shaft assembly... I lost those in my 2nd crash... luckily had bought a spare set of them... need more now tho

[estarter]

The bearings, washers, O rings ... should stay put in the feathering shaft, I never lost those.

[Griffin]

I got a JR 9 channel Tx with a 6 channel Rx for a good price and have installed the Receiver on the Belt CP. It has been an interesting exercise. I have the mix sorted but I am struggleing with the Pitch and Throttle curves. Does any one have some settings I could use? I did the setup (swash plate leveling, blade tracking and pitch etc) with the E-Sky TX and Rx.

[swatson144]

All the setup process will run the same as with the Esky rig.

you'll want to run normal TC something like 0%, ??%, 75%, 85%, 100% where the ??% equals the highest you can set it and get a good spool up with your ESC. (good meaning able to raise the stick without wrapping the blades up or working to hard at it) Then adjust it as you want to keep HS constant through pitch range. Getting a high number at 1/4 stick (??%) allows nice swooping glides from altitude or holding in a gust without the HS dropping off.
Normal PC would be 45% 45%, 50%, 75%, 100% that'll give you a couple degrees of negative, which you probably aren't used too but not enough to accidentally slam it. You can adjust it for more after a brief familiarization period.
TC in IU with the above settings in <norm> would be 100%, 85%, 75%, 85%, 100% and PC straight linear 0%, 25%, 50%, 75%,100%.

Adjust the linkages to get level swash and 0 pitch at 1/2 stick in IU .Adjust the swash AFR so that you don't over travel. Verify full/equal range of pitch.

Steve

[estarter]

You may use my K2 setup as reference, they are similar.

link: http://www.rchelicoptertown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1170

For the Belt CP, make sure the elevator servo linkages are equal and same width.

[Griffin]

Thanks Guys. I have not been able to try either. I broke my Main Blade housing (the part that joins blades and shaft) and I cannot get one anywhere locally. I was told it was because of the Olympics!!?!?! I had reinforced the woodies with packing tape and sheared it just above the bolt hole when I clipped my desk. Flipping blades are fine (We live and learn)

[Griffin]

Still waing for my spare parts. The local dealer has been giving me the old "your xxx is in the post" story. I finaly gave up on him and ordered from an internet store and will get them to-morrow (two days from order to receipt at the same price).

A question: How do I get the tail boom off? I read some where that it is glued into the frame.

[estarter]

Main blade housing? Is it the blade grip?

[mech50]

Setting up belt-cp., I’ve only been flying and learning how to repair and trim my esky FP this summer now I’m trying to setup and trim my new belt. But to balance it the battery wants to be hang out the front about 1/3, now the cabin doesn’t fit and that Velcro strap? Rubber bands seems to work better. Need a pic of a nice setup please. thanks

[Griffin]

The "Main Blade Housing" is the part that connects the blades, fly bar etc to the shaft. The so called "Jesus" bolt connects it to the shaft.

Balance?: I tossed the velcro and use elastic bands around the battrey. I do a hang test by setting the flybar at right angles to the tail of the heli, and lifiting it up with a finger on either side. I then adjust the battry position intill the tail is horizontal.

I got all my spares and will be setting it up this weekend (cant wait)

[mech50]

Yes, you see to get the right balance the battery is sticking out the nose so far the cabin doesn’t fit!
Do you add weight to the front? You would think you could get a close balance with a stock belt CP and a stock battery. That’s why I’d like to see a nice setup belt CP.
thanks,