Kinetic 50

[RC man]

ive been flying the blade cp for about 2 years an wanted someing alittle biger. I got the Kinetic50 cuz it looked beginner friendly and so far i realy like it:) i got tower hobbies combo kit but with a 7ch 2.4Gz futaba TX. (im new at this lol) ok ? #1 i got a gyro that is the AVCS rate gyro GY401 an running a anlog servo can i run delay on it if the tail hunts at 60%? ?#2 Modes in TX, in the gyro manual it talks about haveing 2 modes one is avcs an one is normal.. In my tX mode are gy or standard.. Is GY=avcs an standard=normal mode? I want to make sure i dont mess any thing up like i have in the past lol.. i have more ? but will go with these

[swatson144]

Delay is used to slow the gyro down to the speed of the analog servo. You can probably set it about 25% and go from there if you find it bouncing after piros or hard yaws. Delay won't do nothing for hunting turning down the gain does that. Many people mistake the gain for more is better which simply isn't true. The gyro gain is only a part of the equation, you also have mechanical gain in the linkages. If the servo moves a whole lot to move the tail a little you have low mechanical gain and will need a higher gyro gain compared to a linkage that moves the servo little to move the tail a lot. HS also is part of the gain low HS you'll need more gyro gain higher HS less. It's simply to help balance the seesaw. Set the gain to stop hunting and then turn it down a little more (10% or so) to make the servo last longer. If it don't hold in your hardest manuever come back up a little.

GY in the radio simplyfies the setting of a futaba gyro. You'll see AVCS beside the percentage for heading hold and norm for rate mode for each switch position. While in GY mode you'll have 0-100% in each. In other than GY you'll set HH/rate by the % for use with other brand gyros that don't have 0-50% = rate (with 50% actually being 100% gain in rate mode) and 51-100% = HH 100% (51% being lowest gain in HH) like the GY401. plots like this / / with the tops being the gyros 100% gain and 50% tx setting being the space in the middle. Some other brands plot like / \ or \ / so you can use any. You'll want to use GY as that just interprets this crap for you with the futaba gyro.

Steve

[RC man]

So servo arm leght is also a form of gain? I see the A(AVCS) an N(normal) in the TX now. not to sound dumb but does one normaly stay in one mode or change modes alot in flight? like is one better for hovering an one for flight? compared to the cp blade its (WOW) having a heli with some mass to it. Do you fly big helis Steve?

[swatson144]

Not so much the arm length but the ratio between the two is the mechanical gain.

Most people just fly around in AVCS (HH) which is certainly best for hovering. If you want to run rate mode you need to set up revo.

Do you fly big helis Steve? Nah I have a couple .30 sized electrics but the biggest I have is a raptor .50 glow driven.

Steve

[RC man]

well i had third flight hovering around tuning in the tail. i still cant stop the tail from hunting. ive turn the gain down to 30% in avcs mode an still hunting.but it seem to get better. How low can someone go on the gain before you know something cant be right?The servo hole im in on the linkage is at the most travel. delay is set a hair over 25%. see in the combo pacage they sent me a hobbico hi speed hi tork ,but the gy401 has a digtal servo about$100 shown in the kinetic 50 book. could it be the hobbico servo to low buget? The linkage is free and dosent bind and spaced evenly. im a disel mechanic (hence the spelling lol) so im good at building things. but i do need some advice:)

[swatson144]

Unfortunately I'm not knowledgeable on the Kinetic but I've set up a few tails. It seems like a .50 upsized hawk If so it's probably the same tail I have on my swift now (3brg)

Go ahead and dial it down until the hunting goes away. Generally it don't get a bunch better before it's real close. much lower than 20% and something really needs to be done on the linkage. Check the manual it usually tells the distance out on the servo arm they had in mind to work well most of the time. If you get down around 10% watch it close. I'd want to get it stopped and then figure out where to go from there. I'm in the long hole on the tail arm and about 13.5mm out on the servo arm on the swift (tails should be similar) 35% gain for putzing around and 40% when I feel froggy.

It might be a good time to describe what you are calling hunting.

I couldn't find the combo with the hobbico tail servo. What model is it it might just be fine.

Steve

[RC man]

she waves her tail like a fish lol is that hunting? The servo im useing is hobbico CS-70MG servo super torq 2bb. on tower hobbies site the part# is HCAM0191 i think it has metal gears . im thinking it may be my servo arm cuz if my eyes are telling the truth it looks like mine is almost 20mm. may be thats it . ill go over the manual. i live in bfe an im not in a flight club. i fly around my brothers farm. trying to find help is tuff. thanks,

[swatson144]

.24 sec/60 degree, that's a slow servo the S9254 is .06. I don't think I've ever seen one slower than .18 in use.

Swimming then it sounds like. Hunting is the same thing but fast. Hunting is almost always too much gain. Swimming is the tail sweeping from one side to the other past center line much like a fish leisurely moving (hunting is like a fish in a real hurry) and is often caused by binding etc or a linkage leverage/servo/heed speed mismatch. Changing one can often fix it (or make it worse if changed the wrong way but that's just more info to use in fixing it).

See if this sounds familiar. You fire the heli up at 50% (in gy mode or 75% in std) gain and it starts to fire the tail back and forth over the center line violently (hunting). Turning down the gain gets you to a point where it seems to be doing the same thing only slowly. Decreasing the gain from that point only results in making the tail too soft to fly? *note that decreasing the gain while hunting results in the distance the tail swings on each side of CL decreases but the speed stays pretty high, swimming you can change the speed but the distance is roughly the same*

Assuming you don't find something you did NOT IAW the manual..
I'd leave it out long on the servo arm and move it in on the tail control arm (century usually gives you 2 holes ~ 1/4" apart). This will make it act faster as the servo won't have to move as many degrees to do the same work. You'll want to make sure to reset the travel limit on the gyro.

It's always best to follow the manual as the designers try to make the baseline setup the most likely to work for any parts the owner may use. It may not be perfect with any extremes but should be functional and not overly exciting.

Steve

[RC man]

is the .24sec/60degree the spec on the hobbico servo? Im getting ready to try her out again ill let u know how it went.

[swatson144]

Yep. Scorchingly lackadaisical.

Steve

[RC man]

so i might want to think about getting a better servo right. i moved the horn to about 13mm i was at like 18 an stayed at 30% an she held. but i never tryed to turn it up more. ill try to turn it up alittle or maybe i should quit while im ahead lol a get aother servo lol

[swatson144]

Get another servo? If you want. It only has to make you happy, so if it's working you ain't wearing out an expensive servo.

Steve

[RC man]

well im out of fuel an had to order some lol . so i guess ill fly my planes till fuel gets here. what kind of fuel do u run in your rapter .50 ? and what engine are you running? i got the hyper 50. it sounds cool lol. im running 30% alot of people say to use 30% in the saito 4 strokes (in p-51) for better idle so i can maybe kill too bird with one stone an not have so many differnt fuels. im going to run the servo cuz im very happy with the chopper. i just wasent sure if you thought that it was a good idea to run it with a slow servo. but see seem to be doing good. witch brings me to this. if it wasent for this web site id still be pounding my head with issuses an trying to find someone in BFE to help a guy out. Im not much for just going for with a $1100 dollar heli (shes not the best but i like her LOL) THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP mainly steve lol. I have flown an havent spent money on stupid misshaps... Im likeing this how you say air tilling

[swatson144]

I'm running 15% 'cause I'm just a puppy. Make sure you buy Heli fuel as it has more oil (in general). I used to run a lot of nitro in planes and boats so I bought 60% and 8% of the same brand and mixed them to get what I wanted. That was when you read about synthetic (~'85) but no one ran it or trusted it. Now I'm running KoolPower 100% synth and will buy 30% when the LHS gets some in. Hyper .50 also (2nd one being built)

Happy to help, and thanks for the thanks.

BTW the Kinetic is a nice heli. It's made by century for Helimax and they make a good product. Best of all is from the gassers to the .30s they have a certain healthy parts interchangeability so I doubt parts will be much of a problem.

Steve

[RC man]

oo trust me im no spring chicken lol. your building your hyper for the 2nd time. what where some of the signs that she was going out, low on power , bad idle, or just some PM (cuz shes due). thats what i ordered was the coolpower 30% . whats your high speed needle set at? just ballpark figure . Man i cant wait for my fuel. hasmat charge of 20$ LOL Good thing i ordered bulk :D

[swatson144]

Sorry for the confusion, but the Hyper is fine. I'm building a 2nd heli running another hyper.

I think I'm running real rich at about 1 1/8 turn but governor does a good enough job with it so I'm just gonna leave it there, unless it ain't making enough power. I've been having problems with the raptor, just one little thing after another. I bought it to fly on weekends.

Steve

[RC man]

wow that took some time to get fuel., but np its here to bad the weather is crapy out. Ive been going over some things making some preflight cheaklist cuz the nitro heli has alot more thing to look after then my blade cp does. I do notice how lube up the nitros stay lol. Im still waiting to take her on her long flight, now that the tail is figured out. im so pumped ,and im getting tired of flying in the FS1. Hope this wind slows down. i want to till some air gerrrrr

[swatson144]

I picked up a jug of 30% and another of 15% last weekend at the LHS. The 30% was 35$ and the 15% 20$. My Xero-G is running well and solid. The stock rappy is ready for another trip to tryout. The .50s do very well in wind last sat it was 10-15mph and I know there was some big gusts but the .50s were doing fine. It was windy enough that me and the 3d dude were the only ones flying.

Steve

[RC man]

ive been checking out some videos on you tube with helis in the wind an i was impressed with how well they handle it. It gave me some moral suport lol. Today was perfect for the heli an i took her around an about. was awsome, i love the way when she passes over head you hear the blades chopping air. the cp all i hear is the electric moter. i really learn alot on this flight, (shes heavy an dont be scared too use some pitch ) only found 1 thing that i think is impossible to fix maybe not tho but ill check with you guys. The tail has a small vibration that even the cp has that i think is the moter an just things running. + i think being way out on the end of the tail would make a small vibration amplofide dont you think? all these heli vids on you tube, the camera makes it look toally still. does your heli have even alittle vibration? An do you have any videos of your heli (Mr Rappy) ?As soon as i get someone to video my flight im going to put them on you tube.

[Trickycopter]

I have just bought a kinetic 50 still in the build but hope to get it in the air soon. RC Man has me excited waiting on the wallet to finish up have a great day Rick

[swatson144]

Welcome to HeliTown! Trickycopter, and congrats on the Kinetic. I'm sure you'll like it.

What gear are you gonna put in it? Motor? Servos? GYro? Gonna run a gov?

Steve

[Trickycopter]

I am using the a os 50sx-h hyper I have the stock gears gy401with s9254sevo cyclic servos S3151 was not planning on running a gov but after reading numorous post am thinking about running a gov any suggestions on the best one to use This is my first nitro should I check in to a different gear setup or will the stock do for now I am not flying 3d as of yet still learning can nose in hover and getting where I can do some forward flight. Thanks for the welcome and any advise you can give me. Have a great day Rick

[swatson144]

I really like my Aerospire MultiGov Pro. No guessing / taching HS just tell it the gear ratio and the HS you want and it's done. It also comes ready for a temp sensor and will handle the mixture with the optional sensor and servo. I have one on my XeroG setup for gov and mixture which makes it quite the fiddle free, just fly the heck out of it heli. I'm putting one in my Hirobo Huey also. My Ecureuil is all setup with no gov and working fine so I'll just leave it as it is.

Man I sure hope you had as good a flying day up north as we had down here. Pure gorgeous. Calm sunny and mid 40s :D

I'm pretty sure century did all the gear ratios when they stretched out the hawk for the .50 kinetic. It was really my 1st choice when I went nitro but I wound up with deals I couldn't pass on other helis. I like Century and have a lot of faith in them (century makes the Kinetic for Helimax). I'd guess as with most helis you just end up changing what don't fit your flying but I doubt there'll be much if anything to do on it, maybe heavier / lighter paddles. The gear you are installing will make a very pleasant heli. The S3151s get bashed by the hard core 3d guys but are a lot of bang for the buck ( I have them in my Swift). Good motor and gyro setup you'll have a nice heli when done.

Steve

[Trickycopter]

Thanks Steve for the input and the incouragment I can't wait till I get in the air. Should be more stable than my 450 I like my 450 but with my setup 5 min max on flight time. Thinking about changing the hk2221-6 to a hk2221-8 both scorpion. The 6 provides good headspeed but power hungry have a 2500 battery and that is pushing it on size. The wheather here in Oklahoma was not bad a little cool this morning flew a couple of batteris this afternoon I have a large field at the end of the street which makes it is in walking distance from the house. have a great day Rick

[Trickycopter]

Hi all getting close with my Kinetic build have the engine, clutch, frame, gyro, servos installed. Airbrushed the canopy got it cut. Just waiting on a few little odds and ends and will be ready for a test flight can't wait to get it in the air. Have a great day Rick

[mtpenguin]

Let's see if I can do the same thing.


Kenetic 50 uses the letter K in its name. I think it could have used a 60 or maybe even 40 in its name, accept than it wouldn't be 50. I believe they have nice skids. I would like to fly mine. Mine hasn't been bought yet. I believe it will cost money.


B-)