Mini Pred

[Fireant]

Century UK are soon to start marketing what they call a mini predator. I've seen it and it looks remarkedly like a zoom. However, I have been informed that it is slightly different, but no details. It's not eCCPM and is also supposed to be 3D, but the test flight I watched was very tame. Doesn't seem to have the build quality of the TREX though.

All up RTF with Tx and 1300mA lipo for £200.00.

http://www.centuryuk.com/News+and+Events/item8813/

[swatson144]

Welcome to Helitown!

Not much to go on there. No mention of tail drive, AUW, rotor span, etc. I'd assume 15mins on a 1300 mAh would make it a micro.

Any ideas what it might really be? Century doesn't show it on their web site. That'd be a lot of money to pay for a walkera :shock:

Steve

[Fireant]

Cheers

From what I can remember it's shaft drive like the 3D Pro and the Zoom.

Some of the guys from Century UK's main outlet fly at our indoor meet, so I expect one will turn up sooner or later.

[Sleepstalker]

From what I can see CenturyUK is just a hobby distributor that carries Century products in their inventory , as well as other Makers of Heli's and Planks. The mini Pred is most likely a chinese knock off of the new Mini Shogun...my 2 cents anyway... 8)

[Fireant]

Yes, I expect it's a knock off of something else. Saw one last night and it's made by Art-Tech. I looked on their website and it's branded as the Falcon SE 3D. They show Hobby Lobby as one of their customers.

Here are its specs;

Main rotor diameter: 630mm
Tail rotor diameter: 152mm
Length: 670mm
Weight: 530g

[petercw]

Hi all,

The mini pred is basically the same heli as the Falcon 3D, but NOT the falcon 3D SE, which is a new version with metal upgrade parts included. Seems like the mini pred will only be available here in the UK.

I emailed CenturyUK to see what they said, and they replied that "The mini pred is similar to the falcon but has had a fair amount of tweaking and redesigning to make it fly better." I asked what changes had been made and they said "There are 2 many things that have been changed to list." They also said that "We are the sole distributor for the whole of the Art Tech range in to the UK, we do not bring the Falcon in, there for there is not warranty offered in the UK on them either. We felt that the Falcon was not good enough to be sold in the UK there for spent over a year working with Art Tech to make the model good."

So basically their position is that "the Mini Pred is better but we can't be bothered to tell you how"! And in order to try and make you buy a Mini Pred, they say that if you buy the Falcon then you won't get a warranty in the UK.

However, Sola Distribution are importing the Falcon 3D and sussex model centre have it on sale at £190, I think. I guess the warranty would be included.

One thing I have noticed is that spare parts are much cheaper for the Mini Pred than for the Falcon - for an example, Sussex Model Centre quote £16.99 for a pair of Falcon blades whereas Centuryuk.com has the Mini Pred blades at only £9.99; all the other parts are much cheaper as well. This is strange, unless of course it's due to SMCs huge markups which I doubt as they usually seem good value. CenturyUK do say that "some of the falcon spares will fit but at the moment we are not happy with all of them and have had a lot of them redesigned to meet our requirements". Again they don't say what parts they have had changed. For all I know they might have changed them to make them cheaper.

Anyway I'm in the process of deciding between the two. The Falcon gets good reviews pretty much across the board though of course they are some with dodgy electronics, which later versions seem to have sorted out. I havn't read any reviews on the mini pred - does anyone actually have one?

Thanks,

Peter

[petercw]

Update from Century UK:

"There has been changes to boom length and tail blade length, lots of changes to the head, but most of these you would only be able to tell if you really looked very close. Sola distribution do not have the rights to bring any Art Tech products in the UK as we are the exclusive distributor for the products.

Mark Tilbury is probably one of the most respected helicopter flyers in the uk having been national champion on multiple occasions, he is the one that has been working on the design of the machine to make it better.

Also to the best of my knowledge Art Tech are no longer making the Falcon as they are only making the Mini Pred for us and they are making the same machine under a different name for sale to the USA etc.

There will not be any reviews for a little while yet on the Mini Pred as we only launched it this month and it takes a while to get reviews in to mags. We have sold many of these already to the trade and many of the shops have come back to us very quickly and ordered more."

[swatson144]

That's hilarious it sounds so much like venom and the walkera 22e H2 clone. Not saying it's a walkera, but Venom's we change too much to list is why we charge double, and the distribution and support channels. The same saw about no support/warantee etc :roll: . It seems to turn out that in Venoms case a side by side comparison shows that the "too many changes to list" consist of green stickers. :lol: .

Then you have the Blade CP/Hbee CP2. Esky contracted the original CP to E-flite/horizon and then released the CP2 right along with the blades release. Marketing hype would lead one to believe the older design of the blade cp was the improvement :?

I wouldn't worry too much about the warantee it seems that unless you can make the distributer uncomfortable the support seems to be bring/send it in and we'll look at it (speaking in general terms). Then unless the heli is in prestine condition they call it "crash damage" even if the esc smoked on a battery change and not when the blade tips got scuffed 11 flights before.

My uninformed opinion would be to just buy the heli you want, if you are convinced to buy one of the two. Though I keep thinking ~400$ is an awful lot to pay for an RTF and is getting so close to building a decent (not saying the MP isn't) airframe with high quality electrics (those probably aren't) I'm betting with the mech mix the included TX won't meet your future needs, and likely won't . The gyro will likely be a source of agrevation until you replace it, the stock power plants are generally marginal at best.

IMO RTF is best done cheaply and considered as a stepping stone. Buy an RTF and learn to hover. 1st upgrade would be a good transmitter. When you are into FF you'll have a lot better idea what size you want. ...

Steve

[petercw]

Thanks for your advice.

I'm aware that the electronics included with the Falcon/Mini Pred are probably not of the highest quality, but £200 seems quite a good price for a heli with brushless motor AND lipo batteries AND charger AND collective pitch AND sim cable...

I would love to build a T-Rex or similar but suspect that would come to at least double the price and probably more. I only want something to get me back into helis, I used to fly a Nexus, then an Eco-8, then an MS Hornet a few years back but I think I might be a bit out of practice - hence the Mini Pred's cheap spares are an attraction!

I think I'll wait a few weeks and see what happens. I spoke to a model shop who told me the only difference between the Falcon and the Mini Pred is the colour of the canopy! Then CenturyUK told me that Art Tech are actually not making the Falcon any more, they're only making the Mini Pred which they are then exporting to other markets with a different name :-s this is confusing me now.

The only other possibility is to go for a Hummingbird Elite 3D pro, which is again £200 but doesn't include the TX. Or many a Hornet X-FP, which can be got for £200 including TX and all but is fixed pitch.

Decisions, decisions....

Peter

[swatson144]

Ah that make sense then. If you are thinking about getting back into it then 400$ isn't too bad. If you find you have the time and find it to be a worthwhile hobby you can resale it for the bulk of what you have in it most likely. Heat N Eat is very popular. Well that is as long as you avoid bling and just enjoy as is. You'd probably wind up with a different heli from what you started back with anyway, if you find you still enjoy it.

Steve

[Fireant]

Had the chance to fly the mini pred last Sunday nite. Considering it's straight out the box and with a 1300mA, 11.1V lipo, it didn't fly too badly.
It's a little longer than the zoom 400, but seems to handle much the same. I remember Mark Tilbury cut the tail blades down on the prototype.

I had a 3D Pro and it was a nasty little thing. Couldn't wait to get rid of it. After my Trex 450, I bought a hummingbird V3 and I have major fun with it.

Were those blades at SMC the woodies? Century UK have carbons that'll fit, but they are £30.00.

Not sure if I'd consider one yet. Maybe next year.

[swatson144]

This is a thread well worth watching. Thanks for the info. It's nice to seperate hype from real.

Steve

[Fireant]

Just looked on Sussex Model's website and the specs for the mini pred are the same as for the falcon. In fact so identical that they're the same name. Either a a typo or the only difference is indeed the canopy. Interesting too, is the cost. The mini Pred is £10 cheaper than the main CenturyUK outlet, Modelworld, and the falcon is £10 cheaper again. It would be good to put the two together for comparision

[petercw]

SMC do indeed think that the models are the same - they told me the only difference was the canopy colour! When I put this to Century UK they assured me that there were differences but that SMC just don't know about them. I'm inclined to believe them since I doubt they would try and bluff on this when it's so easily checked.

Thanks, Fireant, for the info on the Hummingbird 3D Pro, I'll cross that one off my list of possibilities. Yes, the blades at SMC were just the standard ones, I just can't understand why the Falcon spares are so much more expensive than the Mini Pred's. Odd.

Fireant, could you elaborate on what you mean by saying the Mini Pred didn't fly too badly? Perhaps give a brief review of its flying qualities?

Thanks,

Peter

[eddiemoth]

This seems to be a good helicopter for those who want a mini, brushless set up, RTF, reasonable price, and pre-test flown from the factory (a big help for a newbie) and not made in China :D . I hope some hobby stores in US will start to carry it. I have a couple questions: is the included transmitter programable for other helicopters or it is like one of the Balde CP and Esky Honeybee CP2 transmitters that are made only for that heli? Is the CenturyUK is the same Century who makes Swift in San Jose, California, US?

[swatson144]

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/images/at600.jpg

Is this the same beast Hobby-Lobby has on sale for $279?

Steve

[eddiemoth]

That is Falcon 3D. It looks the same to me. Here are the spec of the Mini Pred main Rotor Diameter: 630mm, Tail Rotor Diameter: 152mm, Length: 670mm, Weight: 530g.

Specs for Falcon 3D 25-1/4" main rotor diameter, 23-3/4" overall length, 20 oz. flying weight. I am illiterate = can't do the coversion :(.

[petercw]

Hi Eddiemoth,

Sorry to disappoint you but the Mini Pred is I suspect made in China. It's made by ArtTech.

This could be confusing but Century UK are the official distributors for Century Helicopters (the US company) BUT I don't think Century UK are owned by Century Helicopters US. So the Mini Pred has nothing to do with Century Helicopters (who make the Swift) but is entirely a Century UK initiative. Therefore I don't think it will be available in the US, BUT the Falcon 3D (which is essentially the same heli, though Century UK claim the Mini Pred has been tweaked to fly better) is available from HobbyLobby.

I can't answer your question about the Tx, sorry.

Steve, yes, the Mini Pred is the same basic model as the Falcon 3D, but with some tweaks, as I've said. Another difference is that parts are cheaper for the Mini Pred than they are for the Falcon 3D - at least here in the UK.

I'm thinking of getting a Mini Pred but I will wait for a couple of months to see what happens.

All you lot in the US probably won't be able to get the Mini Pred; but the Falcon 3D gets good reviews.

Peter

[Fireant]

Fireant, could you elaborate on what you mean by saying the Mini Pred didn't fly too badly? Perhaps give a brief review of its flying qualities?

Thanks,

Peter

Peter.
We're getting a few in to the indoor meets and I had the chance to test one. Apart from some fine tuning on the gyro, general flight characteristics seem pretty good. The one thing I did find was that it felt quite sensitive on the elevator although this could have been due to the CG or the training gear. It has a HH gyro which holds well and there seems to be enough power. I did some flat 8's and control response was good except for the elevator sensitivity. This wasn't too alarming, but you needed to be aware of it. Some expo would probably help. The transmitter looks like any cheap 4/6 channel type with two pots for hover pitch and throttle. No mixing capability that I could find and I can't see anyone doing 3D with setup. I really think they're being aimed at the novice flyer to compete with the walkeras, shoguns etc. Out of the box, it's stable, but would still need fine tuning to get it absolutely right. (Something I found with my "flight tested" hummingbird. The LHS tells buyers not to touch any of the pots in the 4in1 box, but all the ones I've tested had these cranked to max). Saying that, the only fine tuning appear to be on the rudder and most novices are dialling this in with the trim.

Fundamentally, if I got one, there are a few changes I would do. For starters, the receiver sits behind the battery with the ESC tied to a strut right next to it. So the first thing would be to move the ESC to under the rear of the airframe. I'd also consider fitting a ferrite ring to the throttle lead. The tail drive is ala Zoom with a shaft drive onto plastic gears. It would be interesting to see how long these will last. The vertical fin is longer than the tail blades, so that provides some protection against stripped gears.

There is one possible downside, I discovered last night and that was radio compatibility. One novice had his setup on his FF7 by the LHS and he was complaining of it being quite sensitive in pitch. I had a closer look and there was glitching when power was increased. Get to just below hover and the model would jump up and down. I thought of electrical noise and switched it into hold. Moving the throttle produced no glitching, so I'm thinking interference from the ESC. Hence the suggested changes mentioned above. The crystals had been replaced to try and cure this with no joy, obviously. A transmitter and crystals from another mini pred were borrowed and, although I didn't test it, it looked like the glitching had gone. Something to look out for, because if I was to get one, I'd stick it on my FF9.

[petercw]

Fireant,

Thanks very much. I'll wait and see what Century UK do (if anything) about the problems you've highlighted. I think their response will show whether this is intended to be a "serious" heli or just another toy.

The communications I've had with them have been quite positive, though they weren't willing to list the changes they had made to turn the Falcon into the Mini Pred. I dislike the way they try and hide the fact that the Mini Pred is the same as the Falcon 3D, I think it would be better if they acknowledged the fact and were more specific about how the Mini Pred is better. As things are, I see no reason to go for the Mini Pred over the Falcon, which contrary to what Century UK say is available here in the UK.

It'll be a shame if this turns out to be another toy, because you get the feeling that with just a little bit more effort - and a little more cost - it would be great. A T-Rex with a similar spec would be over £400. I think if they increased the quality of the included electronics, people would be happy to pay £250, maybe even £300, for what they're supplying.

I think if I brought one I would get a decent TX to go with it - which kind of begs the question, why bother including a TX if it's not capable of 3D?

I have a suspicion that if this was intended to be a proper heli, then it would come without a TX or with a decent one.

Thanks again,

Peter

[Fireant]

Peter

I think the reason they included the Tx was as mentioned in my last post. The novice market. Century UK do have a reasonably priced small CP electric. When the Elite CP came out, I saw guys with them at Swanley and they had a host of problems. The CP is no longer imported and as for the 3D pro or the T-Bataar, I personally do not think they're suitable for a novice pilot.

looking at the overall model, you get the impression that it's not the standard of the current Trex's, but I could be biased as I had the SE with all the silver carbon and blue shiny bits. It definitely appears to fall into the walkera/shogun category.

As I said previously, from looking at the supplied Tx, I can't see how you could set the model up for full 3D. However, I've just browsed the falcon manual on the Art-Tech site and there's a small switch for normal and 3D. In normal, you get 0 to +11 degrees pitch whereas in 3D mode, you get a pitch range of -8/10 to +9/11 with a V curve on the throttle. Now, I wonder if they tell beginners not to touch that switch on the right?

So, if the mini pred is set as per the falcon, then I stand corrected on the 3D capability. That said, I'd like to see one actually perform in front of me to be convinced.

[swatson144]

So far it sounds like the norm for a 3D RTF. Usually a very marginal power plant, and a TX that gives only the fundamentals. No real way to adjust the throttle curve from 100% 50% 100% in IU to something more likely to recover HS in a transition 100% 90% 100%. Not to mention a straight linear curve in normal which leaves you flying around in quasi fixed pitch mode. HS up and down along with pitch changes.

I'd be interested in knowing if you raise the hover throttle with the knobs does it actually stop the motor when it gets zero throttle stick? Some of the others hover at ~1600 rpm and wallow about like a duck on ether. You can actually turn up the throttle trim and get more HS but doing so means the novice has to actually kill the throttle and lower the trim in a crash since there is no throttle hold switch.

I think one item the informed prospective RTF owner should know is the best upgrade is a new good TX. A mediocre heli and a mediocre tx isn't much good past the learning to hover stage. While a mediocre heli and a good programmable tx will get the heli well into the FF and simple aerobatics stage, and all the while much more pleasant to experience.

Steve

[eddiemoth]

Hi Eddiemoth,

Sorry to disappoint you but the Mini Pred is I suspect made in China. It's made by ArtTech.

This could be confusing but Century UK are the official distributors for Century Helicopters (the US company) BUT I don't think Century UK are owned by Century Helicopters US. So the Mini Pred has nothing to do with Century Helicopters (who make the Swift) but is entirely a Century UK initiative. Therefore I don't think it will be available in the US, BUT the Falcon 3D (which is essentially the same heli, though Century UK claim the Mini Pred has been tweaked to fly better) is available from HobbyLobby.

I can't answer your question about the Tx, sorry.

Steve, yes, the Mini Pred is the same basic model as the Falcon 3D, but with some tweaks, as I've said. Another difference is that parts are cheaper for the Mini Pred than they are for the Falcon 3D - at least here in the UK.

I'm thinking of getting a Mini Pred but I will wait for a couple of months to see what happens.

All you lot in the US probably won't be able to get the Mini Pred; but the Falcon 3D gets good reviews.

Peter

Peter, great info.
Thanks

[terryw]

I just bought a mini pred from SMC my local shop. Not flown it yet as I've been trying to get the tx to work with FMS. I found that I had to download latest fms and change the model folder for the one that came with the FMS with the mini pred. I also had to download smartpropoplus and extract it to the FMS folder. Then I was able to run the tx with FMS it plugs into the mic socket. Not quite calibrated correctly yet. The tx is out of the E-FLY 100 C set. As, I suppose, are the receiver and servos. As I say still fiddling and no flying but will keep you informed and ask for advice when I need it. I think this is a new radio from the earlier ones with the mini pred and the falcon. Has 4 modes and a screen. Very nice bit of kit it seems to me.

Terry.

[G-MRM]

Hi Terry. A late Welcome to Helitown, I have missed this post!

So, has the Mini pred taken to the skys yet, how are you doing with the sim flying? Fireant has helped a few with setups and flying.

Martin

[terryw]

Only about two inches. Just enough for the skids to leave the ground but the training gizmo to stay there. Was trying to get the hang of the throttle for hover when the weather turned very gusty. Hopeless so it's work in the garden. I found the sim useful. Someone said that any sim with any copter would do so I've been playing in clearview with a raptor. Hard to orientate after fixed wing. Orienting a disc is another matter.

Yours Terry.

[eddiemoth]

Two inches above the ground is a good start! The 3 inches and then 4 inches, that how everybody starts this hobby. For some sim is not necessary but for me I find that sim helps me a lot especially when I want to try something new. I also use clearview - it is not the best but it will do. I also like to fly clearview's raptor 90 model as it is not to small to see when you fly it far. You can change the weight and other configurations to make it twicher similar to your mini pred if you want to. Do you have a picture of your mini pred to share?

[terryw]

Hi again.

I've put some pix of the Mini Pred in my gallery. Maybe some of you can see the changes that are said to have been made during it's metamorphosis from Falcon to Mini Pred.

Yes this seems to be a hobby the needs great self discipline. Planes are more forgiving I seem to remember. Though it's over 20 years since I flew fixed wing I still find myself wanting to do what would be good for a plane but bad for a heli. I'm trying to follow the advice of someone who's written a rather good book on it. Hopefully that will pay off.

I would like to program the clearview raptor 90 to be more like the pred but I'd need someone elses figures at the moment. Nowhere near knowledgeable enough yet.

See ya later Terry.

[eddiemoth]

Terry, thanks for the pictures. It does look good. I also see your yellow bird.

There are lot of things to adjust with Clearview model parameters but all I have done now is to make it lighter by changing the weight. I placed a link to the Clearview owner manual here in case you need it. http://www.clearviewrc.com/cvdocs/ClearViewDocTOC.htm

[terryw]

Hi Eddie.
the yellow bird is a DBSPORTANDSCALE 5th scale piper cub. Started it years ago and it rekindled my interest when I found it in the attic now I'm retired. I'm hoping to electrify it. The power of the mini pred really impresses me. There is so much out there now. The wind here stays very gusty and, it seems, multidirectional. So no flying for the last few days. Thanks for the advice on clearview. I see that it's possible to fly together online with that. I'm hoping that someone will start a virtual training field so that forum members could teach each other. Or maybe that's still something for the future.

Terry.