Raptor 30. Points to look out for?

[NeilM]

I have now decided to get a Rappy 30.

I am not that keen to go nitro again, but there are loads around fully loaded and relatively cheap, and just about everyone at the local club has or has had one. Also they will convert to electric pretty easily :D

So Rappy owners, what are the typical faults that I need to be aware of when looking at a prospective purchase?

Neil

[Ranger]

The only real fault I had with mine was the plastic tail pitch fork slider, was a weak point until I replaced it with a metal one. you can see it here Plastic: http://www.helitown.com/forum/files/dscf0566_923.jpg
Metal: http://www.helitown.com/forum/files/dscf0562_991.jpg
Whole thread can be found here: http://www.helitown.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=508&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[G-MRM]

All the normal things to look for, as these are often the first steps into helis they will have been crashed, whatever the ad says!! Show me a non crashed or landed hard heli and it will still be in it's box waiting to be built !!

No play in the head, no vibrations, tracks Ok, links are not loose, OS engine better than the rest. easy to start and good power, shown by good climb rate.

Futaba 401 gyro, dual conversion Rx nice to have, any upgrades and good blades help make a sale. At the correct price, parts are cheap. Best thing is to see it fly !!

On the BFMA I saw a nice rappy 50 for £220 !

[NeilM]

Just the job, thanks.

I am watching a bunch on my favourite auction site, all around £280 to £300 loaded. One, not too far from me, has more kit than my LHS :lol:

I am keeping an eye on the BMFA site as well.

Neil

[The Broker]

I am not that keen to go nitro again, but there are loads around fully loaded and relatively cheap, and just about everyone at the local club has or has had one. Also they will convert to electric pretty easily

Hi Neil, :D

I have 2 questions to ask you......

1 If you are not keen on nitro again why are you buying one, it cannot be just because there are a lot of them about, are you a closet nitro person but don't want to admit it :lol: :lol:
I don't see the point in converting nitro to EP unless you are one of those people who like to do it for the experience.

2 Why a 30, it makes more sense in buying a 50, I don't really understand why anyone would buy a 30 unless it was cheap and used as an intro to nitro and even then it would be beter to get a 50.
My friend Craig bought a 30 and is now on the lookout for a 50 he could have saved money and gone for a 50 from the start however he can be forgiven as it was his first heli but it will not be your first heli. Selling 2nd hand heli's is a buyers market but to be honest I would be very careful as what looks like a good buy can turn out to be a nightmare.
The heli may not have been crashed but are some of the electronics or parts being outed from a crashed heli.
I have heard this comment many times " I'll out it on ebay" I agree with Martin, seeing it flying is the best way to judge it.

Sue

[NeilM]

No Sue, I'm not a closet Nitro drinker :?

The reason to stay away from nitro (smell, noise, oil , tuning in hot/cold/dry/wet weather etc) is somewhat outweighed by cost at present. A 30 / 50 sized electric say a Trex600 or Raptor E620 is a very viable option until we get to the batteries, which currently (get it, batteries, current eh?eh?) cost a fortune.

The conversion thing is more or less just for the fun of it, as it would be easier to buy a E550 or E620 in the first place.

You are right about buying on line, which is why I am looking at lots and bidding on nothing at present, there is of course the LHS loyalty thing as well. If I am going to go there for parts, why not buy the heli there in the firstplace??

I'm not sure I get the 50 thing. A Raptor 30 is a good sized heli, the 50 is a bit longer with a lot more poke. The last thing I need as a raw(ish) beginner is a heli with a bunch of poke. But, I am willing to listen to a reasoned argument :D

So, to answer your questions. Why a Rap 30. Cost and because several very sensible people have suggested it is a good way to go.

Why a 30...ummm I dunno. Size really and availability I guess.

Neil

[The Broker]

No Sue, I'm not a closet Nitro drinker

Now I never suggested you were a nitro drinker, maybe having a secret affair with one but not a drinker :lol: :lol:

I'm not sure I get the 50 thing

I am a beginner like you actually probably worse than you, I prefer flying in the garden and rarely go to the club except to catch up with people and when I do get to the field I spend more time talking than flying.
I was advised very strongly not to bother with a 30, this advice was from my trainer Steve who lets face it has an uphill struggle with me.
If you asked the question should I get a 30 or 50 size on a well known UK forum they would say 50 without a doubt.

BUT and this is the biggie, as you are only playing it does not matter what size, my only thought is you will be bitten by the bug again and regret buying the 30.
Martin was an EP man through and through but after joining a club and flying with them he changed and now owns more nitro than EP and belongs to 2 clubs.

Looking at your posts you seem to me to be a cautious man which is good and I think it unlikely you will be ripped off. :D

[G-MRM]

The most flown size is a 50. You can de everything you want with a 30 only one point a 50 is better in the wind, however a 60 is also better than a 50 in the same wind etc etc.... 60 and 90 size use fuel and at £20 a gallon it adds up.

Most of all people like to upgrade and they don't like flying a smaller heli while 'every one' has a 50 !!! Cost wise, the same all but a few $, blades are 55cm not 60cm so maybe a little cheaper but not much, The engine will be cheaper, 39 not a 50. Parts will cost the same new, BUT the 2nd hand market is where you can save. I have seen full setups for sale, Tx, flight box starter fuel as well !!

You said every one and his dog has a rappy at the club you looked at, if you join, I would fly the rappy in nitro form and you should get all the help you need getting to grips with setup and flying.

Get all that under your belt and then you can play with conversions etc. You will then know if it is Ok to fly, good or bad because you can fly and you are use to how a heli feels when it is working well. Like a new driver would find it hard to find fault with a car if he did not know better !!!

Hope this helps !!! :( :D :cry:

[NeilM]

Looking at your posts you seem to me to be a cautious man

Naaah, I think I'm just getting old :( Oh and having both my kids at uni means not too much cash to splash either :lol:

The guy at the LHS yesterday suggested the 50 Titan and really could not give me a reason why, as he had just been proudly showing me round his own 30.

I will keep my eyes and ears open. The trouble is that round here there are only a handful of heli pilots and 99% of them fly Raptor 30's....so I am not going to get an unbiased opinion am I?

I really appreciate your help, this is a cracking good forum, there are a lot of very sound folk here.

EDIT: Whilst I was typing you were posting G. What you say makes sense, but for some reason the 30 is the popular beast at the Weston club. I spent several hours there on Sunday, with a great chap called Alan. He was setting up some Spektrum gear in his Rap 90. Superb machine which took no notice of the (considerable) wind. But he said what you did, big and thirsty.

There is a show in Yeovil in a couple of weeks time, I think I'm best keeping my hands in my pockets until then, as traders at shows don't like taking stuff home.

Neil - Pondering.

[G-MRM]

Martin was an EP man through and through but after joining a club and flying with them he changed and now owns more nitro than EP and belongs to 2 clubs.

True, I was the only one flying electric... They just let me get on with it ! But I did fancy one, Broker got hers first I will add.....

Flying a nitro that members of the club knew about taught me a lot, setup trim, and flying.... 6 months on I am now always taking out the electrice again, in the last few weeks I have a new motor in the Swift, third battery for the T Rex 600 and as you may have read crashed my T rex 600 last weekend !!! Cry cry..... I have got the 'just nitri' bug out of the way now and getting back to electric. I will not drop nitro, all in all it is a cheap way to start big helis without the battery problems (cost and life) and it is nice to fuel and fly till it stops, not keep looking at flight time to make sure you don't over run the £125 battery pack !!

Once you have the nitro gear, you can pickup cheap helis if you take care. Not the case with electric, first question may well be 'what is the battery like' and next wopuld be 'what is the cost of a new battery' and you can't just have one battery can you? Love to try the eRaptor but as the 600 batts don't fit will I want to buy 3 of these as well ? Don't think so..... :(

The rate of change we have seen in battries should, I hope, change things in the next year or so then maybe bigger will be better for the pocket with green power :D
Martin

[NeilM]

Martin,
the cost of batteries is the very reason I am looking at nitro.

I am sure that as the bigger 'lectrics sell, the same thing will happen to battery prices as is currently happening with 3s 2000mAh lipos. At that point, with a Rap, I can either sell it and get a new E heli, or convert it to E.

I am sure many of the 30 / 50 sized helis could be converted, but the Rap is pretty straightforward, another reason for my choice.

Neil

[The Broker]

it is nice to fuel and fly till it stops, not keep looking at flight time to make sure you don't over run the £125 battery pack !!


the cost of batteries is the very reason I am looking at nitro.

Both Martin and Neil give battery price as a reason for nitro, but I don't care about price as such, I think the real issue is the fact that a battery can be ruined and I have yet to see a gallon of fuel at £20 ruined but a £200 battery ruined through misuse, now thats a crying shame.
I think rule of thumb is if it is a small electric its ok but if you want 50 size it has just got to be nitro and I realise I am offending the T-Rex 600 members but I saw Martins face when his 600 hit the dirt cos its bad enough needing new parts for the heli but the extra cost of damage to the battery in my view is unacceptable. I like the look of the E Raptors and did play with the idea of having one when I first saw it demonstrated in the UK but for now I will stick to nitro for the 30 and above size.
Sue

[NeilM]

Sue, lipo's are not the only source of electricity for bigger E heli's. When you get up to 6S plus, then the Emolis and A123 cells become a lot more practical, and they have the advantage of not being easy to damage in a crash, as they both have much stronger cases that the average 'tin foil and heat shrink' lipo.

Over charging and discharging are really practical issues, like running a motor too lean or with too much nitro. I used to race 1/8th scale cars, with 3.5cc engines running 35,000 rpm on 20 to 30% nitro and the look on someone's face when one of those lets go is pretty similar I would guess to the one on Martin's face last weekend.

In practical terms the cost of a Rap 50 or E620 kit is pretty similar. Electric motor and ESC are not expensive, but the cells are up to £200 each (as you know). As I read elsewhere, it's like buying a years worth of fuel all in one go.

BTW, if you want to ruin nitro, just leave the cap loose and leave the can in a nice damp garage for a week or two, then see how the engine likes it :cry:

For me, it really is just a matter of cost, s/h Rap 30 vs. brand new E550.

Neil

[G-MRM]

Until the other day I had not thought of crash damage to the Li-Po, seeing the covering split after the crash has made me start to think of battery protection.

Looking at some type of foam cover on the corners and edges minimum but remember they can get warm ! This time of year not a problem but summer time could be a problem.

Emolis are an alternative and the way to go for the future, Owning 3 big Li-Pos is like having 3 years fuel in one go but in a crash along with just one tank lost you could damage the engine, likewise you could damage the brushless motor, in my 600 I just damaged the main drive gear and a few other parts and my nice carbon blades :( :(

[The Broker]

Hi Neil, :D

I bow before your greater knowledge, in re-reading my post to you I can see that I have been brainwashed by the nitro guys.
I used to be very anti nitro but it's like the old saying "if you lay down with dogs you get up with flea's" and I think I have caught nitro flea's :lol: :lol:
Sue

[NeilM]

Lets face it, electric or nitro, crashes eat cash :shock:

As for cells, I don't think I would consider big lipo's at present, but for ultimate performance, you just don't need to be hauling round the extra weight of the alternatives.

EDIT: Sue, no bowing round here. I like this forum because I really feel free to express my (one sided) opinions. I see absolutely nothing wrong with nitro heli's. I have just spent too many years with that frantic 'bumble bee on speed' noise in my ears all day, and the sting of burnt nitro up my nose.

Neil

[The Broker]

Sue, no bowing round here
I like bowing its good for my circulation :lol: :lol:

I always listen to someone with a greater knowledge than me (mostly everybody) I pick up information as I go along but like a small child I am never left alone with anything dangerous (helicopter). :lol:


I have just spent too many years with that frantic 'bumble bee on speed' noise in my ears all day, and the sting of burnt nitro up my nose.

Good grief Neil is it true bumble bees are on speed cos if it is thats why I get hyper after my toast and honey. I am at least half as active as before honey so does that make it hyper 50

Also the nitro goes in the tank not up your nose cos you have a bad habit if you are doing that :lol: :lol: :lol:

[NeilM]

I said I didn't drink it....I never mentioned sniffing :shock:

Neil

[G-MRM]

Both Broker and I enjoy nitro for the bigger helis. It is easy to deal with, messy true, once the engine is adjusted thats it or I have been lucky. My Raven 50, my first nitro heli, 2nd hand, is easy to start and not played with the carb for months. Fill it fly it.

My investment in 3 rex 600 batts was large but plug and play when you get to the field but only for 30 mins total. My mix and match on the field with my nitros and my 30 size Swift makes for intrest. I take 4 helis, 5 Li-pos and a gallon of fuel and for now don't charge on the field.

You need a club or your own field to fly larger helis. Be warned !!!! Get a bigger heli and join a club and it all changes !! I still enjoy garden flying but not in the same way.

Found a shop that still has stock of the RipMax Glass F 60cm blades, at £22 a set I ordered two sets thinking if I have stock I will never need them !!! ( well nice thought ) Talked to another member of the club today re my 600 crash and truns out most have had this ' freeze' moment when flying and 9 out of 10 ends in a crash ! Planks don't suffer the same as they are always moving fast !!!

[NeilM]

Martin, I am going to join the local club, as the flying field is only about 10 minutes drive from my house. I do have quite a few acres of other land I can fly over, but it's pretty much electric only, due to the fact that it's horse paddock.

In truth, the Corona and I still have a long way to go together, and I would like another JIC.

I feel another visit to the club is due this weekend :D

Neil

[Fireant]

I've owned 2 raptor 60's and also flown the 30 and 50. One thing I found on my 60 was the bolts holding the flybar to the head. They had a tendancy to work loose even with loctite. If you get the R30, pay specific attention to these during your pre-flight.

[G-MRM]

Been told and shown the grub screw that holds the fixing pin into the tail gear box comes loose. If so the G Box gets eaten by the pin untill you have no tail control, I will post a pic or two.... Better than words !

[G-MRM]

Are you still looking for blades ?

http://www.bmfaclassifieds.co.uk/detail.php?id=19146

[NeilM]

Lummy, their cheap!!

Neil

[G-MRM]

AS they say, I saw them and thought of you !!